Episode 382: What We Need to Know About Forensic Psychiatry with Dr. Mark Levy, Part I
Episode Notes
Are you curious to learn how human behavior and the law interact? Dr. Mark Levy delves into the fascinating world of Forensic Psychiatry, shedding light on the intriguing dynamics at play. Join us as we explore the riveting cases of The People vs. O.J. Simpson and The State of New York vs. Donald Trump. It’s a fascinating discussion that will make you think!
Dr. Mark Levy is a licensed clinical and forensic psychiatrist with over four decades of experience. He has degrees from Columbia University and the San Francisco Psychoanalytic Institute. He is certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and the National Board of Physicians and Surgeons. He is an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco, and an Adjunct Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine.
Dr. Levy and his team of 22 board-certified psychiatrists and 10 forensic neuropsychologists practice forensic psychiatry at Forensic Psychiatric Associates, L.P. (FPAMED.com). Dr. Levy has been retained as a forensic psychiatric expert in more than 500 civil lawsuits and related matters. He has published numerous articles and presented countless talks on forensic psychiatric topics, such as “Mental Illness In the Workplace” and “Shrink in the Courtroom: Forensic Psychiatry and Law.”
I chose to discuss the O.J. Simpson and Donald Trump cases because they spontaneously came up in our conversation. Our legal system has loopholes that get exploited. In one case, someone is guilty but found innocent. In the other, the offender was found guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records that kept a sordid extramarital affair from the public before the 2016 presidential election. The men accused in both cases committed the crimes.
O.J. Simpson died earlier this year on the 30th anniversary of his yearslong 1994 criminal case, The People vs. O.J. Simpson. He was found not guilty by a Los Angeles jury of the gruesome murders of his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend, Ronald Goldman. Just because he was found not guilty doesn’t mean he didn’t commit the crime. We discuss the role of the prosecuting attorney, the broader cultural context, and the impact of societal influences on legal cases, which can blur the facts and conceal the truth.
We taped this podcast conversation in the middle of The State of New York vs. Donald Trump trial. I asked Dr. Levy if he thinks Donald Trump is a psychopath. Dr. Levy explains the Gold Water Rule and the ethics of diagnosing people you haven’t examined. Dr. Levy gives insights into Donald Trump’s reactive and impulsive behavior and transactional focus in relationships regardless of norms or the law. Irrespective of the nation’s needs or individuals in the country, Donald Trump is focused on what is in Donald Trump’s best interest and projects onto others so whatever he accuses others of doing, it is really him who is doing it. If he calls President Joe Biden a criminal, flip it. He is talking about himself. That is what we can predict.
Two psychopath researchers give us insights into how psychopaths operate. Hervey Cleckley, in The Mask of Sanity, labels psychopaths as “grossly selfish, callous, irresponsible, impulsive, and unable to feel guilty or be able to learn from experience or punishment.” Robert Hare defines psychopaths as “social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life… violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret.” If we cannot learn from our experiences, we are stunted in our capacity to grow, heal, and change with new information.
We can stop being manipulated, shamed, and traumatized by electing leaders who have the capacity to grow, heal, and change. Authentic leaders, respect the rule of law, show compassion for themselves and others, stand up for the truth with courage, and have an overall desire to make our world a better place, not destroy it.
Other highlights in our conversation to understand human behavior and the law:
- Dr. Levy and I discuss what we learned from reading Mary L. Trump’s book, Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created The World’s Most Dangerous Man. Mary Trump, Ph.D. is Donald Trump’s only niece.
- Norms vs. Codified Laws.
- Corruption and bias in our Judicial System and Supreme Court.
- The need for transparency and enforcement of rules to protect our democracy.
Episode Resources
NEXT STEP: Challenge yourself and do the three Conscious Attentive Leadership Mentoring (C.A.L.M.) Activities, below. 
Conscious Attentive Leadership Mentoring
After listening, do these three C.A.L.M. Activities:
- Take this risk or do this adventurous task: Read Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created The World’s Most Dangerous Man by Mary L. Trump, Ph.D. (2020). Mary is a clinical psychologist. Her writing is revealing and authoritative in her portrayal of Donald J. Trump and the toxic environment that made him.
- Apply Self-Compassion: Acknowledge that it takes time to reckon with the truth and understand it deeply in your bones. Allow yourself time to sit with its content. You may even learn some new insights into your family of origin.
- Welcome Appreciation: “I appreciate Dr. Mark Levy and his lifework. I have a better understanding of how law and behavior intersect in the field of forensic psychiatry and what it takes to earn its designation. I appreciate his insights into our legal system, its vulnerabilities for exploitation, and his insights into the two criminal cases we discussed: O.J. Simpson and his 1994 trial for murder, and Donald Trump’s New York trial on 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up his affair with adult film actor and producer Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 presidential election.”
It’s your turn. Start with, “I appreciate what I heard from today’s Guest Mentor, Dr. Mark Levy. I appreciate this week’s adventurous task because….”
“Most of the problems in our lives and world are caused by relational dysfunction, a dysfunction in how we relate: as social groups, as individuals, to animals and the environment, and even to ourselves. Therefore, developing relational literacy—the understanding of and ability to practice healthy ways of relating—is essential for personal, social, and ecological transformation.” —Melanie Joy, psychologist, author, theorist, educator
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Guest Mentor
Mark Levy, MD, DLFAPA
Dr. Mark Levy attended Durham University, U.K. (1965-66), and is a graduate of Columbia College (A.B. 1967), the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons (M.D. 1971) in New York, and the San Francisco Psychoanalytic Institute (1984) in San Francisco. He currently practices clinical and forensic psychiatry and has been licensed as a Physician and Surgeon since 1972 by the State of California and since 2004 by the State of Hawaii.
He was certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology in Psychiatry (1981) and Forensic Psychiatry (1999, recertified in 2009, 2019). In addition, he was certified by the National Board of Physicians and Surgeons in both Psychiatry and Forensic Psychiatry (2019).
He is currently an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the School of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco, where he has been on the faculty since 1977 and has taught in the Law and Psychiatry Fellowship since 2000. He is also on the Faculty of the San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis. He is the Founder, former Chairman, and President of the San Francisco Foundation for Psychoanalysis, a community service outreach organization. He is now also an Adjunct Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine.
Since 1975, Dr. Levy has been in full-time private practice, originally in psychiatry and beginning in the 1980s in psychoanalysis and forensic psychiatry as well. He has been retained as a forensic psychiatric expert in more than 500 civil lawsuits and related matters. He has testified in State and Federal Court on 64 occasions. He has never been disqualified from testifying as an expert by any Court in any jurisdiction where he was retained.
As a result of his service and contribution to the profession, Dr. Levy was designated a Distinguished Life Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association (“DLFAPA”) and has been an active member of numerous local, national, and international medical, psychoanalytic, psychiatric, and forensic psychiatric organizations, including The American Academy for Psychiatry and the Law. He has published numerous articles and presented countless talks, both in person and via webinars, to attorneys, physicians, and the general public on a wide range of forensic psychiatric topics. He has also been interviewed regularly as an expert by the print and broadcast media, discussing psychiatric and forensic psychiatric topics of general interest.
In January 2006, Dr. Levy established Forensic Psychiatric Associates Medical Corporation, of which he continues to serve as its medical director. In January 2020, together with his colleague, forensic psychiatrist Charles Saldanha, MD, Dr. Levy also established and serves as the medical director of Forensic Psychiatric Associates, L.P. (www.fpamed.com), a growing group of forensic psychiatrists and forensic psychologists that develop expert opinions for attorneys and Courts on behavioral issues within a broad range of civil and criminal matters. In addition, fpamed as a team specializes in assessing psychological injury claims from populations of litigants in mass tort and multi-plaintiff litigation. We have previously been retained in more than two dozen such cases.
Episode 382: What We Need to Know About Forensic Psychiatry with Dr. Mark Levy, Part I
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