Episode Notes

“At Beyond Carnism, we believe that people need and deserve to know the truth about carnism so they can make their food choices freely—because without awareness, there is no free choice.” –Melanie Joy, Ph.D.

Dr. Melanie Joy is an award-winning psychologist specializing in the psychology of oppression and social transformation in relationships. In our discussion, she lays out a roadmap for effective relational communication, emphasizing the advantages of self-awareness, mindfulness, and allyship over adversarial attitudes. By improving our relational skills, we can contribute to ending injustice and move beyond oppression in all forms.

Dr. Melanie Joy’s latest book, How to End Injustice Everywhere: Understanding the Common Denominator Driving all Injustices, to Create a Better World for Humans, Animals, and the Planet, is an inspiring read that captures the wisdom she acquired from her travels to 35+ countries and the practical ways we can improve interpersonal, intrapersonal, and societal relationships. If you’re committed to ending injustice, her book and this podcast conversation are a must-have for your reading and listening library.

Melanie says we communicate “because we want to share our thoughts and feelings. Our inner selves.” Melanie also says, “The more we can communicate with people in a way that they feel safe with us, the more likely we are to set an atmosphere for our message to be heard as it was intended to be heard. The more we help other people feel safe with us and recognize that we are safe people to be in relationship with, the more likely we are to create more safety and connection in those interactions.”

During our conversation, Melanie shared one of many vital insights – achieving mutual understanding is the ultimate goal of any healthy relationship. Our discussion was enlightening and affirming, and I appreciated Melanie’s surprising gesture of gratitude toward the end.

Last week, Melanie mentioned that shame and contempt can harm relationships. The antidote for both emotions is self-empathy and compassion towards others, which can help us share experiences and learn from one another.

We often only express a part of our true feelings and desires. This leaves us with unaddressed needs and unfulfilled interactions. Suppose we view our relationships and ourselves as a continuous work in progress. In that case, we can have more enjoyable interactions and be open to giving and accepting second chances until we reach a mutual understanding. This allows both parties to get clear on what they want and view the relationship as one in progress (openness) and not necessarily an end result of perfection (closed-mindedness). We make mistakes all the time when we are learning new things. Why not give each other space to evolve and change?

I learned a helpful communication technique called ‘whole messages’ from Melanie. It involves breaking down what we want to say into four parts: observations, thoughts, feelings, and needs. How she explains the four parts makes it easy for us to apply. This technique has helped me get clear on what I am feeling and what I need. Melanie also recommended reading Messages: The Communication Skills Book by Matthew McKay, Martha Davis, and Patrick Fanning to learn more about this technique.

What is the common denominator that drives all injustices? We learned last week that we could root out injustices everywhere by building upon our relational literacy and understanding the psychology interwoven into nonrelational systems. Practicing integrity in our everyday interactions and honoring our dignity and the dignity of others is part of this roadmap that Melanie says points us in a relational direction.

I finish our conversation with a quote at the conclusion of Melanie’s book Ending Injustice Everywhere. She writes, “Martin Luther King, Jr. famously said that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. This statement makes intuitive sense. And when we understand the contagious nature of unjust, nonrelational behaviors, we can truly appreciate how injustice reproduces itself, no matter where it shows up, no matter from or to whom it’s directed.

That injustice breeds injustice is why it’s so important that those of us who want to create a better world recognize the nonrelational common denominator driving all injustices. Every time we choose integrity over indignation, compassion over contempt, dignity over defensiveness–every time we avert an unjust dynamic and practice a just one instead–we’re interrupting the process of nonrelational dysfunction that’s at the root of so much suffering and harm, and we’re redirecting that process toward healing.” 

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